1. sjkang

   That is a difficult question.  Honestly, I’m not sure what i would choose.  However, I would choose to have a non-believer take part in worship, if that would help to lead that person to Christ.

   May 22nd, 2007

2. eCsuPA

   hurry up and get here. i need some family time.

   May 23rd, 2007

3. KingdomSheepDog

   What about a third option: A run of the mill, aesthetically inferior worship team comprised of at least a few non-believers?

   I don’t like the first option, because it puts too much weight on talent. 

   I can accept the second option, but it will be best if they can include some non-believers.

   May 23rd, 2007

4. J_Pole

   Are you condoning non-believers in Church leadership? Because that’s what having a non-Christian musician on a worship team would entail. I just want to see a little more into the doctrinal side of this opinion… how does it play out among the leadership and what scripture says about leadership.

   May 24th, 2007

5. randplaty

   I don’t think its leadership.  I wouldn’t have them be the worship leader, but if they want to serve on worship team, I would encourage that.  Its like letting a non Christian put away chairs at church or letting a non-Christian come along for a Mexico missions trip.  Non-Christian on a skit team… any of thsoe.

   May 25th, 2007

6. J_Pole

   I think being on a worship team, regardless of if you are leading the team, means you are leading others in worship. Going on a mission trip, being in a skit, play an instrument or even setting up chairs all give others an example of Christ. These actions are ministering to someone personally. How can one be involved in personal ministry if they aren’t part of the body? Take a look at Acts 6. The disciples were becoming overloaded with work and needed people to do the simple task of “waiting tables”. Instead of saying, “Anyone can hand out food and clean up tables.” they prayed about it and chose wise, faithful believers. They were very particular in choosing everyone who was participating in ministry that was personal to people in the body. Now, it could be argued that setting up chairs is not a personal ministry, and I could accept that. But, there is no getting around the fact that being on a worship team, missions trip team or skit team is a direct personal ministry to other people. These jobs should be weighed carefully and each person involved should be representing Christ, just as in the example of the early Church in Acts.

   May 25th, 2007

7. randplaty

   So if your church had a trip to go to Tijuana to build a house for a family that did not have one and a non Christian friend of yours heard you were going and wanted to go too, you wouldn’t let them?

   They chose the 7 in Acts 6 because the current method of food distribution was unfair and biased against Grecian widows. Of courseyou need someone “full of Spirit and wisdom” in order to properly distribute the food. This was not a small task like you make it out to be. This is in no way analogous to food distribution today. The was a controversial issue that needed to be negotiated with care. There was decision making involved. Do you think the 7 were the only ones distributing the food? No, they were in CHARGE of the food distribution. This doesn’t mean that they couldn’t tell less mature people to do the actual handing out of food to the widows. Even children, as long as they could obey, could do that task.

   The distinction is not “personal ministry” versus “impersonal ministry.” The distinction is decision making, direction, delegation, discernment. Therefore I would say that yes the person in charge of the worship team needs to be a very strong believer, but the ones playing the instruments do not necessarily need to be as long as they are capable of obedience, respect and humility.

   The problem with the church today is its tendancy to exclude itself from society. Not only does the church not venture out of its own 4 walls, it doesn’t even allow non-Christians to come in. This is a clear example of that attitude. This is what not-yet Christians are hearing from you:

   “You cannot play music with us.”
   “You cannot go on a trip with us.”
   “You can’t act in a fun skit with us.”
   “You can’t hand out food with us.”

   Who would want to be a part of such a hostile group of people?

   May 25th, 2007

8. J_Pole

   If a non-Christian friend wanted to go on a trip with my church, it would have to be evaluated whether or not that person was going to serve in a ministry position. We need to be open for unbelievers, yes. We need to make them feel the love of Christ. But, at the same time, we can’t allow our own standards of ministry to fall. I believe the first requirement of ministry is that you are a believer.

   I completely agree with what you said about Acts 6 I’m actually very glad you brought that up! These men were pulled from the body of the Church. It follows that those they had help them with their task would also have been pulled from the body, since the jobs they were doing were to benefit the body.

   I think maybe the term “ministry” needs to be a little more defined. Right now we’re talking about roles people may or may not have within it. I believe ministry is a lifestyle every Christian must live. It is service to God that benefits the body of individual believers and also outward to unbelievers. Since it is an action that portrays Christ, it must come from a believer, a member of the body. Non-believers may want to participate, or may even actually participate, but that isn’t ministry. I’m not saying they can’t do great things and encourage people. That would be ridiculous. Many secular humanists do great things for people. But, would you consider any of those things ministry?

   I don’t think that non-Christians see us as secluded in the areas you said at all. When have you ever heard an atheist say, “Man, I really wish I could play lead guitar of that Church’s worship team, but they won’t let me!” It’s got to be a rare occasion, if it happens at all. The problem isn’t that the Church is excluding some group of non-believers who earnestly want to participate in our ministry, it’s that non-believers don’t want to participate in the service at all! Our question then is, How do we engage our culture with our ministry? How do we appropriately and effectively serve them? With those questions in mind, how then would we expect people who have no understanding of scripture and faith to adequately meet these needs if they are involved in ministry?

   I don’t think we should sacrifice the focus of ministry for self image.

   May 25th, 2007

9. kanfood

   I’ve actually came across several occasions where a not-yet-christian, who has been coming to church/fellowship consistently, deny their opportunities to play guitar with the worship team (even after their leader had said yes, he was later removed from the team by someone who was ‘higher up’) or their opportunities to be in the skit. It was sad. They could only be spectators, as though we are an exclusive club that only believers can do the fun things. I would say that based on my experience, this happens quit often (especially in youth group or college fellowship settings). I agree with you on what you mean on ‘ministry’. Obviously, a non-christians can’t really minister to other people but they can be ministered to when they serve with Christians side by side.

   May 26th, 2007

10. eCsuPA

    i agree with daniel

    Jun 4th, 2007

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