Repackaging God (part 2)
This post is part of a series of posts. Be sure not to miss part 1, part 2, part 3, part4 and part 5.
When Philip asked Jesus “Show us the Father” in John 14, Jesus told Philip to look at himself. “Don’t you know me?” he asked Philip.
I find it interesting that God wants us to look at him through Jesus. When we think about God, we’re not supposed to think about what Isaiah saw. We’re not supposed to think of him high up in heaven with angels surrounding him. That is an incorrect view of God according to Jesus. The correct view of God is Jesus himself.
Now, why do you think God wanted us to look at him through Jesus? Why did God choose to relate to us in human form?
Another question, why did God specifically create humans? We know he created us for his pleasure and for us to worship, but he created angels and animals for his pleasure and for them to worship also. We need to be able to answer that question very specifically, otherwise we’ll never know how to worship God. We also won’t know the answer to why God chose to relate to us in human form.
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kanfood
If I can, I’d like to relate to my bunnies as a bunny myself. I can tell Hops that it’s ok to be held and receiving some pettings on the head from mom and dad.
Apr 17th, 2007
sc_q_jayce
Yes, Jesus was the fullest revelation of God that we were given, but why does that mean that we’re not supposed to think of God as what Isaiah saw?
Why does that mean it is wrong to look at Jesus high up in heaven with angels surrounding him?
Is something wrong with the imagery that depicts him as a conquering king?
Please respond.
Apr 17th, 2007
randplaty
Sc_Q_Jayce. Heck if I know. All I know is that when Philip asked Jesus to show him the father, Jesus didn’t. He said, “Look at me.” So unless that statement is meant specifically for Philip and nobody else, I would think that means that we as human beings are supposed to relate to God through Jesus. When we think of God we’re supposed to think of Jesus. I don’t know why… that’s just my logical conclusion through John 14. Do you think there’s any other logical conclusion?
Apr 17th, 2007
randplaty
Jesus is also depicted as a conquering King, so maybe we can view him that way?
I don’t know if there’s a right way or wrong way to look at Jesus, but one thing is, Jesus did not show us the Father directly. We’ve never been allowed to look at the Father directly. The Father wants us to look at him through Jesus.
Apr 17th, 2007
sc_q_jayce
Just as a thought, brought to you by history:
The Westminster Longer Catechism:
“Question 1: What is the chief and highest end of man?
Answer: Man’s chief and highest end is to glorify God, and fully to enjoy him forever.”
The question never revolves around why God created humans. It is interesting that as I read through the catechism, there is no sense of loss since we are told how to worship God by the Word of God. It is irregardless of the meanings of God’s ways. As Paul declares (and I do not mean this as a cop-out), “Who has ever known the mind of the Lord?”
We were also made to dominate the earth almost as an emissary of God: “Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” Genesis 1:26
Anyway, back to work.
Apr 17th, 2007
sc_q_jayce
Well, let’s look at the passage in its context:
1″Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. 2In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”
5Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Daniel, you said this:
“So unless that statement is meant specifically for Philip and nobody else, I would think that means that we as human beings are supposed to relate to God through Jesus. ”
Jesus is comforting his disciples and reveals that the disciples have seen the Father in a way that no one has around him. Notice that Jesus says the following in the passage:
“Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.”
Jesus tells his disciples that they have seen God work firsthand through Jesus because Jesus is completely obedient to the father (he is in Him) and the father lives wholly for all to see through Jesus (He is in him). He says to look at what he has done as evidence of the Father in Him. Jesus makes something distinct here.
Jesus is not saying that the Father IS Jesus, as if he were preaching a form of modalism. Jesus is saying that his authority is given by the father and that his actions reveal the father’s will, the father’s heart. Jesus’ actions are approved of by the father and the disciples see that Jesus indeed has that authority to teach as he has, to declare himself as he has, to forgive as he has, all actions that only God himself can do, because of him being God, having perfect obedience to Him as a perfect servant.
The passage after that also confirms that he is not saying that God is equal to Jesus (as I’m sure you agree). The strongest understanding we have of the nature of the Father is through the Son, this I agree. But again, if Jesus is portrayed through John as Wisdom (hypostasis), then why does that make Isaiah’s view of God as wrong?
Saying “to understand God, look at Jesus,” doesn’t mean that looking at Jesus is the exclusive way to see God. God revealed himself through the prophets and the Law, as well as the spirit. Hebrews 1 verifies that these were ALSO revelations of who God was and I do not see why these would be wrong.
I agree that Jesus is key, but I don’t see why Jesus in the scriptures is exclusive as you write it to be.
Apr 17th, 2007
sc_q_jayce
By the way, you can just refer to me by my real name. If you use my handle, you can use it in all lowercase as sc_q_jayce, or just Jayce.
Apr 17th, 2007
randplaty
Jason, yeah I agree with most of what you’re saying. I don’t think that its wrong to look at God the way that Isaiah did… but perhaps incomplete? So maybe it’s not an “incorrect” view of God but somehow it’s sorely lacking. That’s not the mode that God chooses to reveal himself to humanity. The Law, creation, all of it was incomplete. So Jesus is not the exclusive way to see God, but at the same time it seems like the view of God you get from the Law and Creation is extremely dim compared to Jesus. So much so that Jesus would say “I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me.” That is pretty exclusive.
Obviously he is referring to salvation, but don’t you think he is referring to God’s revelation of himself also? There is general revelation and special revelation, but of all of this revelation, Jesus seems to be the only way to TRULY see God for all of who he is.
Apr 17th, 2007
eCsuPA
Jesus loves me.
Apr 18th, 2007
Twin_Mustang
interesting questions..
Apr 18th, 2007
KingdomSheepDog
Jesus is the fullest expression of the Father. John 1:17-18:
17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him . NASB
Apr 18th, 2007
KingdomSheepDog
God wants us to look at Him through Jesus, because Jesus is the perfect image of Him. The chief end of humanity is to reflects the Father collectively. Jesus served that example. All other parts of Creation than humanity will not do the job.
Apr 19th, 2007
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